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Pro life?

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Pro life?

Postby daffodil » 14th Nov, '12, 19:30

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20321741

Pro-life? Not for the Mother it would seem.

Appalling.
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Re: Pro life?

Postby Kooky » 14th Nov, '12, 19:37

Angry. Sad. No, ****ing angry.
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Re: Pro life?

Postby slinky » 14th Nov, '12, 19:42

Totally at a loss for words. I mean, it was clear there was no saving that fetus and so in their 'wisdom' they opt to lose the mother too?? FFS.
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Re: Pro life?

Postby Fat Bob » 14th Nov, '12, 22:07

Don't know why, but I think you're all being rather harsh here.

I certainly don't think it's a pro-life/pro-choice issue.

I also think complications during the pregnancy were the cause of the death. Could those complications (and the seriousness of the complications) have been predicted prior to the stopping of the heartbeat of the baby? Not sure, I wasn't there.

We also don't know how old the foetus was: I'm presuming it was past the standard time for which pregnancies are allowed to be terminated due to the foetus heartbeat (though I'm taking a wild guess there).
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Re: Pro life?

Postby slinky » 15th Nov, '12, 07:09

Seems like that article has changed, FB, I swear I read she was 17 weeks along in it yesterday.

Anyway, this one confirms that number.

edit: link
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Re: Pro life?

Postby daffodil » 15th Nov, '12, 07:24

If the Mother requested a termination at 17 weeks and was refused, pro-choice issue is exactly the point? Would it have saved her life ? Perhaps or not but the fact remains that she was not given the option and from what's been reported so far it was due to religious reasons rather medical.
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Re: Pro life?

Postby slinky » 15th Nov, '12, 07:34

Keep in mind she didn't request a termination on a whim or because she didn't want the baby - she was going through what sounds like a painful and maybe unusual miscarriage and requested a termination to end it.
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Re: Pro life?

Postby Tas » 15th Nov, '12, 07:57

haven't read update articles, but on a note, I readd first article last night, it said 17wks
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Re: Pro life?

Postby Fat Bob » 15th Nov, '12, 08:01

OK, with a few more facts it does make it different.

Yes, it seems the doctors did mishandle this quite badly. There are precedents in Irish law which allow for abortion for the life and health of the mother. However, obviously the law is far too complicated in order for doctors to make life-changing decisions that will help the mother.

I'm already seeing pressure being put on the Irish government to clarify their laws. Let's hope it does.
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Re: Pro life?

Postby Kooky » 15th Nov, '12, 12:30

Glad you all cleared that up - I was sure it mentioned the weeks and was baffled this morning when I went back to it after seeing Bob's initial comment.
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Re: Pro life?

Postby Fat Bob » 15th Nov, '12, 13:09

Didn't mention weeks gone when I read it, still didn't when I read it again this morning....and just checked, doesn't mention now.
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Re: Pro life?

Postby chocolate » 15th Nov, '12, 13:11

Completely ashamed to be Irish right now - I know from having spoken to people in the field that whether or not they are pro-choice or not that if they actually aborted, for the most part it wouldn't be worth their career to do it. Yet seemingly the life of the mother is supposedly important...I hope this changes the way abortion is handled in Ireland..I am so abhorred and upset by this...really 17 weeks...i'm sure the septic shock would have been prevented with an early abortion - absolutely disgraceful.....
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Re: Pro life?

Postby Pinklepurr » 15th Nov, '12, 13:18

What a shocking state of affairs that is. What happened to the idea that hospitals are there to give you the best medical assistance possible? That is so sad.

Oh, and FB, it never had weeks mentioned when I read it either, yesterday or today.
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Re: Pro life?

Postby slinky » 15th Nov, '12, 15:21

chocolate wrote:I know from having spoken to people in the field that whether or not they are pro-choice or not that if they actually aborted, for the most part it wouldn't be worth their career to do it.

How awful for the medical staff who were forced into having to make such a call/choice. Seems to me that would be one of those scenarios that would haunt you for the rest of your life.

chocolate wrote:I am so abhorred and upset by this...really 17 weeks...i'm sure the septic shock would have been prevented with an early abortion - absolutely disgraceful.....

That was my thought, Choc. A needless death - it almost surely could have been prevented.
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Re: Pro life?

Postby Fat Bob » 15th Nov, '12, 16:26

Pinklepurr wrote:What a shocking state of affairs that is. What happened to the idea that hospitals are there to give you the best medical assistance possible? That is so sad.

Oh, and FB, it never had weeks mentioned when I read it either, yesterday or today.


You're reading a very biased view from the family who have lost both an unborn child and the mother. We know very little about the health of the mother when first presented at hospital. We know very little about the progression of the symptoms. We know very little about the health of the mother between doctors legally being able to carry our an abortion and before the mother was too ill to undergo the procedure.

We know, and they should have known, that abortion can not be demanded in Ireland. It is only something that can be given under very special circumstances. In retrospect, it's always easy to say "this should have been done"...well, in retrospect, maybe the parents should have had second thoughts about having kids in a country that has such draconian laws.

This is a tragedy. Ireland's abortion laws (due to ill health of mother) do need sorting out. We have no idea whether those laws, the doctors actions or in-actions, or the parents actions or in-actions could have prevented this situation or made this situation worse.
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