The Medal of Honor

[Possum]

The first one given to a live soldier since the Vietnam War was awarded this week. Looking at the length of recent conflicts and the number of medals awarded compared to past wars and the number of medals awarded it makes me question why there have been so few. The powers that be send these young men to war to fight in the name of their country but on their return sweep them under the carpet like a dirty secret. They are not given the acknowledgement of duty served or enough support to integrate back into civilian life.

[baloo]

Everyone should get The Medal of Honour ?

[Possum]

No, but why so few? Is it a case of not drawing attention?

[baloo]

Or maybe wars have become so clinical that the opportunity to display the type of bravery needed for a medal of Honour just doesn't present itself that often anymore.

[Possum]

That thought did cross my mind but I dismissed it. Eight years of fighting....

[slinky]

The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration awarded by the United States government. It is bestowed on members of the United States armed forces who distinguish themselves "conspicuously by gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his or her life above and beyond the call of duty while engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States." Due to the nature of its criteria, it is often awarded posthumously.

Basically, what that means in a nutshell, is it can only be awarded for most extraordinary circumstances. Now, while I can wholeheartedly agree that the men and women serving in the US military aren't looked after anything even close to well enough after (and likely even during sometimes) their service, handing out the Medal of Honor willy-nilly isn't the answer. I haven't looked it up, but I'm sure a whole lot of purple hearts and many other awards of distinction have been given over these past years of wars.

[Possum]

The Purple Heart is awarded to those wounded or killed. You could be right and there are other newer awards given now….will look when I have time.

[T2K]

The Medal of Honor is the highest citation that can be awarded in the US military - now. In the US Civil War (for the Union/Yankee side) is was one of the ONLY awards in existence, which is why thousands were awarded. So, in the present context, it should only be awarded for exceptional acts.

There are other high decorations for valor given out (Distinguished Service Cross, Silver and Bronze Stars, etc) now. So, it's more of a hierarchy and a lot of those are awarded. It's not like WWII where we had millions of men in the armed forces, so it's proportional.

And I think US military personnel and their families are taken care of pretty well. I mean, not only themselves but their families have nearly free medical care for life, pensions, and other benefits. Not to mention decent pay and allowances.

[slinky]

My concerns about being taken care of are mainly in the area of of the psychological. While some can come home from war and slot themselves back into regular, civilian life, many cannot and it's no secret that the VA medical system is currently stretched beyond its limit. I've seen it first hand as I've met and talked with veterans who have struggled with their mental health for many years and those are really just the lucky ones that have got access to the VA system - I worry about those that aren't getting or somehow can't get the assistance they need.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Slinky, I'm a VN Vet. I met dozens, nay, hundreds over the years who blamed VN for all their drug problems, law & order problems, drinking problems, and so forth. I'm also very familiar with the VA hospital in Wash DC as well. Interestingly enough, I know equal numbers of people who avoided military service altogether both during and subsequently, who also had the same drug, legal & drinking problems without every having experienced a war. Far too many Vets blame VN for their failures in civilian life, when it's my guess that in a majority of cases, it is an excuse for their behaviour and not a cause at all. Of course, there are lots who were traumatized and did have problems but nothing like the quantities that swamped the VA. If that were the case, then how come VA wasn't swamped after WWII? I just don't buy it. Are we saying that young men today are not the men of my father's generation and are not as mentally strong? Nah. It's being used as a crutch. At least that's my personal POV after have been there and done that.

[T2K]

I have no firsthand info to add about that. I am sure war can really mess your head up.

In a general sense, I think that the concept of "mental illness" and making everything a "disease" or "disorder" or "syndrome" is a big problem in the US. Everyone needs "treatment" and "counseling" for something or other, supposedly. If you repeat it enough, everyone will believe they do. Being fat, drunk, lazy, stupid, addicted to drugs, pissed all your money away gambling, etc - it's not your fault, you have a disease and need treatment and help so you can recover.

Obviously, veterans are in a different category. But, the general attitude is affecting them also I'm sure. In my grandfather's day (WWII army veteran) the attitude didn't exist. Probably, some genuinely messed up guys didn't get help. But, even more guys just dealt with it and got on with their lives when today they would be encouraged to seek "counseling" and such.

[slinky]

Yes, I'm sure plenty use being in war as an excuse for drug addiction and a whole host of other problems, but I'm not really talking about that so much. Yes, to a degree we have gone silly labeling everything as a disorder, but we have also learned quite a lot about very real disorders like PSTD since WWII, Korea and Vietnam. I'll just maintain that while many, many people who have been to war can and do successfully get back to civilian life and do quite well, there are many others who cannot. There is not a whole lot of rhyme or reason why some can just pick up and get on with it and why others cannot but the fact remains some are truly damaged and they should not be blamed for it and it shouldn't be assumed they are just making excuses for their own failures.

I personally know one vet who needed psychiatric care but for years could only see a nurse practicioner at his local VA for refills on various (and pretty major) psychiatric meds. They couldn't fit him in with a psychiatrist - which he needed - because they didn't have any doctors available who could take on another patient. That's just one story and that was in about 2002. Now i'm reasonably sure it hasn't gotten better, the facilities are even more stretched.

[Fat Bob]

Going back to whether there's enough medal being awarded: only one Victoria Cross has been awarded in the UK since operations began in Afghanistan or Iraq. I believe the Medal of Honour and VC are equivalent, and therefore it seems about right that only a couple of these have been given out. To me, these are the ultimate award for doing something to help your colleagues under fire.

I think the UK system does not do enough for ex-soldiers, especially those that are messed up in war. However, I believe much of that lack of support is for those physically injured. As highlighted above, much is made out of the various things which are used as excuses. 'there are some genuine cases, there's also a lot of people who like milking the system. Though I must admit, I have a huge amount of sympathy for ex-forces people (and current) and believe they should be higher on the list than the lesbian couple with no jobs who want to adopt 3 children.

[cromasaig]

Though I must admit, I have a huge amount of sympathy for ex-forces people (and current) and believe they should be higher on the list than the lesbian couple with no jobs who want to adopt 3 children.

Absolutely, FB. I'd be interested to hear more about the serviceman you're referring to and the lesbian couple's plan to steal those kids from the state's loving care.

Can you furnish us with more specifics?

[Fat Bob]

There's no specifics, the term about the lesbian couple is purely about how some local councils positively discriminate. It usually includes other words which I left out for fear of being called a racist (so at the moment you can only call me a homophobe!)

And yes, I have seen councils positively discriminate when identical CVs were sent in with an English name and a Indian name were used, only the Indian name was selected for interview.

[Possum]

The difference with returning service men from WWI and II was that they were given a hero’s welcome home. They experience and witnessed things that nobody should but were thanked and appreciated by their country. They felt valued, needed and like they had made a valuable contribution to their country. There is so much opposition to the Middle East conflicts that this new generation of veterans faces a very different welcome home.

With around 1.8million troops being deployed in the last 10 years I still think 5 medals is extremely low.

[T2K]

I won't pretend to be connected any more, but I know people serving as both enlisted ("other ranks") and commissioned (officers) personnel in the US military. There are certainly a lot of medals awarded, just not a lot of Medals of Honor (VC equivalent). I don't perceive any feeling that there aren't enough decorations awarded, in fact quite the opposite - some feel that they are given out too freely.