UK 'threatens' to raid Ecuador embassy over Assange

[Fat Bob]

As far as I'm aware, there is no US request for extradition from either Sweden or UK.

[canuck]

Glad I could make you laugh - about a month or more ago on Philip Adams program you had two professors talking about Sweden's legal system and how sex has been totally politicized. It wasn't an unreasonable argument - their rules are totally absurd to the point that you can be a prostitute but you can't hire a prostitute - how that makes any sense I have no idea however their police have been very shrewd at enforcing this law. Sweden also has the highest rate of rape convictions in Europe - well above their neighbors.

I do find it disturbing that you think a high conviction of rape is a bad thing. How many people do you think get away with it?

There is a differnce between conviction and charged, but there again do you think every one in europe who is raped goes to the police and reports it? or are you happy to live with statistics that make you feel better?

[Joseph27]

I think when you change laws to such an extent that behavior that is not uncommon (AND NOT VIOLENT) in a relationship can be criminalized so easily... The high statistic doesn't all comes from armies of tree jumpers waiting to pounce on unsuspecting women walking along in quite road. There is an anomaly in their statistics and that means a lot more people in jail for behavior that is not criminal in most places. By your logic we should be happy that more people are in jails in Saudi Arabia for transgressing their rape laws and if it means that there are a disproportionate number of women then it's okay because that's their law and it means they were not only charged by convicted so they are there deservedly.

[Fat Bob]

J27: if this was anyone else would you bother? Or is it just because it's Assange?

[Joseph27]

Well you've got me there - Assange actually seems like a bit of a dick however I do admire his work in Wikileaks.

[slinky]

...if you had a few drinks too many the night before you might well do things which you wouldn't do (again) in the morning so I don't think that sex in the night before entitled him to have sex with her in the morning (let alone while she was still asleep).

I agree with Lichty.

Good grief, what has the world come to???!

[Joseph27]

Though FB - since day 1 I have simply said that if there was some guarantee publicly on the table saying that Sweden will not extradite him to the US - this mess would have been dealt with more than a year ago. That refusal from Sweden to say that - the refusal of the Australia government to properly back him has made this situation worse. Whatever the laws are in Sweden he will need to deal with them - and if he goes to jail there I don't have a problem with that - I only have a problem with the extradition to the US. The Aussie governments says the US don't want him yet their embassy releases documents saying the opposite.

[canuck]

...if you had a few drinks too many the night before you might well do things which you wouldn't do (again) in the morning so I don't think that sex in the night before entitled him to have sex with her in the morning (let alone while she was still asleep).

I agree with Lichty.

Good grief, what has the world come to???!

I'm with them. I don't think it is normalto have sex with someone/ anyone while they are asleep, especially a pretty much a complete stranger without a condom...

[slinky]

I only have a problem with the extradition to the US.

I thought it was already said on here that there is no indictment for him in the US? If there is no indictment, what grounds would they extradite on?

[Fat Bob]

Though FB - since day 1 I have simply said that if there was some guarantee publicly on the table saying that Sweden will not extradite him to the US - this mess would have been dealt with more than a year ago. That refusal from Sweden to say that - the refusal of the Australia government to properly back him has made this situation worse. Whatever the laws are in Sweden he will need to deal with them - and if he goes to jail there I don't have a problem with that - I only have a problem with the extradition to the US. The Aussie governments says the US don't want him yet their embassy releases documents saying the opposite.

1: Currently there has been no extradition request by USA to either Sweden or UK.

2: Any extradition to the US will have to be judged on a case by case basis, and will be under the laws of the EU and European Human Rights Charter from either Sweden or UK.

So there's no real reason for Assange to not go to Sweden.

Unless he's guilty.

[daffodil]

FB and Lichty ...spot on.

Be afraid!!

[Joseph27]

The US have been conducting a grand jury - they are still gathering evidence against him - a simple statement from Sweden saying under no circumstances will we extradite if the US attempts to lay charges and after any trial and jail term if applicable - he then be sent back to Australia. If the US then choices to charge him and seek extradition - they can do so from Australia. It didn't need to be this difficult - and although lots of people write Assange off as a whacko - there are a number of diplomats and politicians around the world who say assange has got every reason to be afraid.

Of course the standard line is that the US don't want him - and the government disavowals any knowledge of US intentions - so when it is clear that they do, he has something to be worried about.

[slinky]

Seems to me that Assange apparently never learned the concept of just because you can doesn't mean you should. This would apply to his personal life and the reason Sweden wants him extradited to answer charges and it would apply to his professional life and the publishing of illegally obtained govt materials. (And just because he wasn't the one who illegally obtained the govt materials doesn't let him totally off the hook if you ask me.)

So there's no real reason for Assange to not go to Sweden.

Unless he's guilty.

And therein lies the issue -- he's clearly got reason to be afraid of being found guilty of the charges in Sweden or he wouldn't have jumped bail in the UK and be sitting in the Ecuadorian embassy right now, would he?

[Lili Von Shtupp]

Seems to me that Assange apparently never learned the concept of just because you can doesn't mean you should. This would apply to his personal life and the reason Sweden wants him extradited to answer charges and it would apply to his professional life and the publishing of illegally obtained govt materials. (And just because he wasn't the one who illegally obtained the govt materials doesn't let him totally off the hook if you ask me.)

So there's no real reason for Assange to not go to Sweden.

Unless he's guilty.

And therein lies the issue -- he's clearly got reason to be afraid of being found guilty of the charges in Sweden or he wouldn't have jumped bail in the UK and be sitting in the Ecuadorian embassy right now, would he?

Unless he lives his life purely for the ego trip, which, if you ask me, given everything that I've ever read about his life, is highly likely.

[Fat Bob]

The US have been conducting a grand jury - they are still gathering evidence against him - a simple statement from Sweden saying under no circumstances will we extradite if the US attempts to lay charges and after any trial and jail term if applicable - he then be sent back to Australia. If the US then choices to charge him and seek extradition - they can do so from Australia. It didn't need to be this difficult - and although lots of people write Assange off as a whacko - there are a number of diplomats and politicians around the world who say assange has got every reason to be afraid.

Of course the standard line is that the US don't want him - and the government disavowals any knowledge of US intentions - so when it is clear that they do, he has something to be worried about.

You are up in arms about the UK threatening to raid the Ecuador embassy, as it goes against all international law.

However, you ask for international law to be suspended when it comes to any potential extradition to the US.

It is not possible for Sweden to categorically disallow any extradition to any other country [that it has extradition treaties with] without hearing the case first. It is not something the Swedish Parliament can agree to. It is only something that a court in Sweden can make the decision on.

Be consistent with what you want to uphold, J27.

[Joseph27]

Raiding an embassy would set a very dangerous precedent across the globe and open the door to any 2 bit regime to drag out dissidents from foreign embassies and deal with them. The respect of embassies as foreign soil stood in place during the cold war, works well in China and when it does get smashed - you have the situation you had in Iran in 79. For the British to even raise that was straight out dangerous and really quite stupid.

In regards to the US seeking extradition - Assange should simply be afforded the same protections as any journalist - Wikileaks didn't steal the information from the government however they did publish it as did the NY Post, as did the Guardian and papers all across the world. If Assange needs to be tried in the US, he should be in dock with the editors of newspapers and networks across the world. I don't like the precedent the US is seeking to establish. Unfortunately the Obama administration seems very focused on smashing whistle blowers regardless of the circumstances being leaked.

Just to refresh memories - Joe Biden called Assange a high tech terrorist, other politicians simply said he should be taken out, and they have been convening a grand jury. He isn't safe going to the US - Sweden's actions in refreshing the charges and refusing to question him in the UK just raised eye brows and again if he ends up in the US, he will probably spend the rest of his days there minus his internet connection. By seeking extradition - Assange simply raised the profile of this case - I think he will end up in Sweden facing the charges and then come back to Australia. I don't know if that would have happened if he gone to Sweden 17 months ago. It doesn't mean he won't end up in a US jail - the Aussie government hardly wants him but his chances are a bit better now.

Just slight side note - I love the attacks on Ecuador by the typical right wingers in the different papers - it's like they need to follow the same line, so they immediately start slamming Ecuador but the same assholes stay tight lipped the moment the West does something wrong.

[Fat Bob]

Sweden doesn't want to question Assange. Sweden wants to arrest Assange so that Assange can be charged. Sweden used established international procedures to go about the arrest of Assange. Assange has since been through several trials in the UK to see that his extradition to Sweden is lawful. It is.

If Assange wasn't arrested in the UK, didn't go through the extradition procedure in the UK, then it would have set an international precedent similar to the one you mention about the UK storming the Ecuador embassy.

At no point has the US begun formal proceedings to have Assange extradited to the US.

J27, you are using a lot of hypocrisy in your arguments. You argue that international law should be upheld, and then argue it shouldn't. You belly ache about extradition to the US when you know full well that under European Human Rights Charter, Assange would not be extradited to the US should he have a chance of facing either the death penalty or torture.

Personally, I think Charlie Croker should not have to return to Italy to answer the charges around the gold bullion robbery. I mean, he's a likeable lad, the music is good and he said the immortal words "you're only supposed to blow the bloody doors off".

Anyone else got people they would want to escape the long arm of the law?

[slinky]

Just to refresh memories - Joe Biden called Assange a high tech terrorist

Jesus. We're going to start quoting Joe Biden as if anything he says is actually meaningful?? Have you actually heard some of the utter nonsense he comes up with??

[baloo]

Isn't he the second most powerful person in the USA ?

[Tas]

it's the real worry isn't it Baloo....

[slinky]

Isn't he the second most powerful person in the USA ?

it's the real worry isn't it Baloo....

Shows the state of things, doesn't it?

[Spike]

Well if Assange managed to have sex with a woman while she was asleep, he must have a very tiny todger. As far as I'm concerned he is a complete dick anyway. Exposing military plans and strategies to a fanatical enemy as well as trying to scupper diplomatic efforts by revealing confidential communications between countries does not make him a hero in my view. His actions with Wikileak were irresponsible with a callous disregard for the consequences (including possible loss of life) of making such confidential information public. He has sought notoriety and now has it, big time. I hope he gets what he deserves and lives to regret his stupidity. I don't understand why the idiot has so much support.

[Joseph27]

Well if Assange managed to have sex with a woman while she was asleep, he must have a very tiny todger.

As per Curb your Enthusiasm when Larry David's agent Jeff is accused of having a very small 'todger' - his reply was that she just had a very big vagina.

[Spike]

Well if Assange managed to have sex with a woman while she was asleep, he must have a very tiny todger.

As per Curb your Enthusiasm when Larry David's agent Jeff is accused of having a very small 'todger' - his reply was that she just had a very big vagina.

Knitting needle in the Albert Hall syndrome.

[canuck]

Well if Assange managed to have sex with a woman while she was asleep, he must have a very tiny todger. As far as I'm concerned he is a complete dick anyway. Exposing military plans and strategies to a fanatical enemy as well as trying to scupper diplomatic efforts by revealing confidential communications between countries does not make him a hero in my view. His actions with Wikileak were irresponsible with a callous disregard for the consequences (including possible loss of life) of making such confidential information public. He has sought notoriety and now has it, big time. I hope he gets what he deserves and lives to regret his stupidity. I don't understand why the idiot has so much support.

Tend to agree with this gentleman,why is he a hero?

He's exposed human nature in govt? And diplomats? Well Duh.... Did you think they were somehow better than us lowly humans who generalise, mimic, gossip and try to fit in? Are they suppose to be better at not playing the us versus them that everyone does?