Ebay fraud reported by ABC

[Burbage]

This story seems a bitstrange to me, perhaps someone can explain.

The bloke says this:

"Basically everyone paid with bank deposits, so once you pay a person with a bank deposit there's literally no chance you're going to get it back, unless the other person decides that they want to pay you back," he said.

But if you pay with a bank deposit you know the name of the business or person and their bank. The person must have ID to open a bank account so you (or the police) should be able to track the person down rapidly. I would have thought that with PayPal, while there is insurance, you would often have real trouble tracking the person down since all they need to open a paypal account is an email.

[Bender]

Can you give us a link to the story please. Or is there one already and I've missed it?

[Fuzz]

http://www.news.com.au/technology/story ... 08,00.html

http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/e ... 06733.html

Burb, when you transfer money, especially in AUS, account number and the BSB are read, name is secondary. I transfer $22 every month to a guy called "Barry" for mowing my lawn, because I don't know his surname and it goes through every time. Besides, what's stopping a crim to open an account using bogus IDs, especially if the bank doesn't have good fraud/money laundering detection?

[Burbage]

I'm just saying that a bank account is far more traceable than a PayPal account, and there are far more checks involved in opening it. The fact is that I feel safer using bank deposit than using PayPal, was I wrong? (It's irrelevant now of course, since Ebay only allows Paypal).

[Fat Bob]

Don't know how it works in Aus, but supposedly in the UK there are stringent checks by the banks allowing people to open accounts. You need two forms of ID, one including a photo and one including an address (must be a recognised utility co or council). Therefore the banks SHOULD know who has opened an account. All banks must follow these procedures otherwise they will be shut down.

You are right, bogus ID's are possible, as are addresses on letters if you want to work hard enough. But then the crim has to withdraw the money at some point. Most ATMs have camera, most banks have cameras, all electronic movements of money can be tracked. In all cases, a trail is left. they should have at least some idea on who the person is or at least have a photo of him/her.

Maybe the banks only have to provide information to the police after a warrant has been received and maybe the crim has already done a runner.

[Fuzz]

You have to also take into account the privacy law - I can transfer money to the account in Bank A from my own Bank B. If the recipient is a fraud, I can instruct Bank B to contact Bank A and investigate. However, Bank A may choose not to divulge the customer details due to privacy law.

[Burbage]

You have to also take into account the privacy law - I can transfer money to the account in Bank A from my own Bank B. If the recipient is a fraud, I can instruct Bank B to contact Bank A and investigate. However, Bank A may choose not to divulge the customer details due to privacy law.

Criminal investigations can bypass privacy laws, surely?

[Bender]

Ebay only allows Paypal

Slight correction. See article. Sellers can accept non-Paypal payments, and currently must offer Paypal.

[Fuzz]

Following Burb's post:

Yeap, for sure. It takes time and bureaucracy as well - and would you do this for small amount of $$?

In a lot of cases when you're dealing with small amount of $$ for eBay purchases, I think that most people channel their effort on eBay rather than contact their Bank for the investigation. These are types of incidents that eBay would probably use to boost its case to push people to use PayPal.

[Burbage]

Ebay only allows Paypal

Slight correction. See article. Sellers can accept non-Paypal payments, and currently must offer Paypal.

I thought it changed last week. Items must be paid for through Paypal only with the exception of a couple of categories. At least that's wat I've understood from the recent changes and the messages they put up. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Bender]

My experience (as a bit of an ebay addict) is that payment using a credit card via Paypal is probably the safest option. If you're ripped off by an ebay seller and Paypal doesn't handle it, you can dispute the transaction with the credit card provider. I've had to do this after the Paypal 'protection' failed. The card provider investigated and I got a refund.

The majority of my dealings on ebay have been ones where I've paid by bank transfer. Never had a problem with them. Had a few problems with sellers who accept Paypal though.

[Jedi]

Best way to avoid such things is only buy from sellers who have A LOT of positive rep - ie. thousands...

[Bender]

that's wat I've understood from the recent changes and the messages they put up. Maybe I'm wrong.

They were going to make Paypal or COD the only payment methods, but have backed down. They're now insisting that sellers offer Paypal, but sellers can accept other forms of payment as well.

"A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"

[Burbage]

that's wat I've understood from the recent changes and the messages they put up. Maybe I'm wrong.

They were going to make Paypal or COD the only payment methods, but have backed down. They're now insisting that sellers offer Paypal, but sellers can accept other forms of payment as well.

"A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"

Good. I was going to stop using Ebay. Transferring money from my bank to my paypal account is a pain. It was OK in FRance, but seems to be more difficult in Oz, or at least with SunCorp.

[baloo]

My Paypal is linked to my credit card. I make a payment with Paypal and I get the charge on my CC. Seemed a lot easier to me than linking a bank account.

[Burbage]

Yes, I can do that, but my credit card transaction details don't appear in my online banking thingo at the moment, so I avoid it.

I prefer to use bank deposits rather than Paypal for payments, except for small items (I keep 100$ or so in my paypal account). This is because I thought it would be more secure. Am I wrong?

[baloo]

I prefer to use bank deposits rather than Paypal for payments, except for small items (I keep 100$ or so in my paypal account). This is because I thought it would be more secure. Am I wrong?

I've always used PayPal wherever possible and have always tied it to my CC. I haven't had a problem to date.

[Burbage]

And the only problems I've had were with Paypal. Different experiences. Any other opinions?

[Jedi]

I use paypal a lot and i've never had any problems. I love the fact that I don't have to give out any personal details to make payments, as opposed to giving my credit card number out to each online merchant i deal with. I always select the paypal option now if it's available.

[Burbage]

With bank transfer here you don't give out details, you have the bank details of the seller.

[Scrummy Mummy]

Don't know how it works in Aus, but supposedly in the UK there are stringent checks by the banks allowing people to open accounts. You need two forms of ID, one including a photo and one including an address (must be a recognised utility co or council). Therefore the banks SHOULD know who has opened an account. All banks must follow these procedures otherwise they will be shut down.

You're not wrong there! I had a right palaver opening a bank account for mini-Scummy to deposit cash he got as Christening presents. I mean, do they really think terrorists are 18 months old and depositing 350 quid?

[Fat Bob]

No, but they could easily pose as a 18-month old depositing sums of money.

And it's not about terrorism, it's about money laundering.

[Scrummy Mummy]

No, but they could easily pose as a 18-month old depositing sums of money.

And it's not about terrorism, it's about money laundering.

They'd have to be bloody short then!

And I thought all the fuss about money laundering over the past few years was due to concern about terrorists gaining access to laundered funds?

[Fat Bob]

There's been these restrictions in place for quite some time now. So it's about ANY sort of money laundering. There's more crimes than just terrorism that require money laundering.