Welsh bashing

[Lichtgestalt]

Maybe the Welsh and English are both right?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/tr ... board.html

But according to the nation's tourist board, there is one problem holding it back – the Welsh themselves.

Research carried out by Visit Wales has found that the English are put off from visiting the Principality by the reception they receive.

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The Welsh were accused of being "rude", "unfriendly", "positively unwelcoming", "impolite" and "quite offensive". In response, the Welsh complained that they were treated "like second class citizens" by visitors.

Visit Wales' report also found that the English felt Wales had a "slower pace of life", was "slightly old fashioned" and "stuck in the last century".

When asked to relate their image of Wales to a car answers included a battered Land Rover, an estate car and a Morris Minor,

Max Boyce, the Welsh comedian and singer, rejected the accusations.

"I find this remarkable. If there anything we are not, it is unfriendly. Friendlessness is probably one of our strongest traits. The Welsh go out of their way to be friendly," he added.

"We are very friendly, very proud and very passionate, as most small countries are.

"As we sometimes say, we tilt at the English but the lances are not barbed. One of our most famous song is "We'll Keep a Welcome in the Hillside" and that rings true."

But the Visit Wales study said that the view that the Welsh were "unfriendly" was a "key component" of the country's "brand personality".

In many cases, this perception stemmed from use of the Welsh language. Every English focus group which took part in the study had stories about visitors feeling deliberately excluded when locals started talking in Welsh.

The report added that "people will often cite Welsh-speakers rudely ignoring them". "Its when you walk in and they suddenly swap from one to the other", said one respondent, from the north of England, who said the Welsh were "rude".

The study also uncovered resentment among the Welsh about they are perceived. A respondent from Cardiff taking part said that visitors tend to see the Welsh as "second class citizens", and that they consider Wales a backwater, still with coal mines.

The apparent antipathy between the English and Welsh, though, is in sharp contrast to attitudes towards the Welsh from Irish visitors. These were found to be "notably warm".

The focus group research was commissioned by Visit Wales and the Arts Council for Wales and was conducted earlier this year, to help identify ways to increase "cultural tourism" in the Principality. The results have been obtained by The Sunday Telegraph using Freedom of Information legislation.

The report said it was "notable" how little detail many of the respondents knew about Wales. It concluded that the Principality was an "empty" country in people's minds. One respondent, from the north of England, said: "I'm really struggling to think of things that are there".

The report also found that visitors perceived Wales to have bad weather and an "unappealing greyness", as well as being "old fashioned".

When respondents were asked about cultural destinations, Wales was rarely mentioned, except by the Welsh who were taking part, although England and Scotland were. No Welsh city appeared on lists of "cultural cities".

However, respondents were able to name several Welsh celebrities, most notably Catherine Zeta Jones, the actress and singers Tom Jones and Katherine Jenkins. In a "second tier of awareness", people associated with Wales were Max Boyce, Shirley Bassey, and Harry Secombe, the former member of The Goon Show who was often not named, but remembered for his humour and specifically his laugh. Younger respondents also mentioned Charlotte Church and other musicians, including Cerys Matthews, Stereophonics, Duffy and Manic Street Preachers.

Richard Burton and Anthony Hopkins are well known for being Welsh and were widely mentioned by groups. Much less well known was Dylan Thomas and Wilfred Owen. Lloyd George was the only political figure mentioned.

The television series Gavin and Stacey was also mentioned by many as bringing attention on Wales, as was the appearance of Glyn Wise, from north Wales, on the seventh series of Big Brother, in 2006.

Television series seem key to attracting visitors to Wales. The report found that Portmeirion is perhaps the Principality's most famous architectural icon and is still well known for its use in the 1960s series The Prisoner.

A spokesman for Visit Wales said: "There are, unfortunately, still some misconceptions about Wales out there amongst those who have never visited or who have not visited for some time and we'll continue to challenge them. The ultimate test is, of course, to come to Wales and experience how warm the Welsh welcome, or croeso, really is for yourself."

[Burbage]

The problem isn't the Welsh. It's the fact that they hate the English.

[Morrolan]

The report also found that visitors perceived Wales to have bad weather and an "unappealing greyness", as well as being "old fashioned".

and this is different from the rest of the island how?

[T2K]

I've only been to the UK a couple times, but I just can't understand how people living in such a small place can perceive such monumental differences between themselves, let alone consider themselves to be different countries. You can walk drive across the whole place in a morning for f*ck's sake!

I guess when you only know grey, you can see lots of shades of it?

[baloo]

I used to think the same T2K until I spent 7 years in Europe. It comes down to something the US and Australia lack, and that's history. We've only had a couple of hundred years of history to build up animosity, nowhere near enough. These Europeans have been holding grudges over a minor sheep shagging scandal that happened possibly over 1000 years ago.

[Morrolan]

These Europeans have been holding grudges over a minor sheep shagging scandal that happened possibly over 1000 years ago.

1,015 years, 8 months, 20 days and 5 hours (roughly)

[Fat Bob]

Oh, lucky I was wearing my corset, otherwise my sides would have split from the various comments here!

Burb is right though. You can see it in the rugby games between Wales and England. The welsh care not about Grand Slams, they just want to beat the English. Strange culture indeed.

T2K, just because the place is small doesn't mean you have to love your neighbour. Luckily we don't have the right to bear arms though, otherwise the Chester laws would have been enforced more than once.

[Spike]

I've only been to the UK a couple times, but I just can't understand how people living in such a small place can perceive such monumental differences between themselves, let alone consider themselves to be different countries. You can walk drive across the whole place in a morning for f*ck's sake!

I guess when you only know grey, you can see lots of shades of it?

Baloo is right. As far I'm concerned, once I cross the Severn Bridge I'm in a foreign country. They even charge you to enter! Once you're there you get the same kind of attitude that English people encounter in Paris.

[azzam]

You're all so quaint

[azzam]

"However, respondents were able to name several Welsh celebrities, most notably Catherine Zeta Jones, the actress and singers Tom Jones and Katherine Jenkins. In a "second tier of awareness", people associated with Wales were Max Boyce, Shirley Bassey, and Harry Secombe, the former member of The Goon Show who was often not named, but remembered for his humour and specifically his laugh. Younger respondents also mentioned Charlotte Church and other musicians, including Cerys Matthews, Stereophonics, Duffy and Manic Street Preachers.

Richard Burton and Anthony Hopkins are well known for being Welsh and were widely mentioned by groups. Much less well known was Dylan Thomas and Wilfred Owen. Lloyd George was the only political figure mentioned."

That's a lot of talent for a small country.
And they've got Daff too.

[Spike]

Nothing personal Daff

[T2K]

Good point Baloo. I didn't live in Europe as long as you did, but I definitely noticed it in the Belgium / France / Netherlands area where I was. But, at least they were different countries. Which, admittedly, England and Scotland and Wales used to be also. And some still seem to think they are.

[baloo]

They're probably different countries today because of a sheep shagging incident 1008 years ago.

[BoD]

I have no absolutely no animosity towards the Welsh. The fact that my parents holiday cottage burnt down in 1976 was due to a freak accident involving lightning, an unfortunately positioned box of matches and a crate of vodka

[Fat Bob]

Good point Baloo. I didn't live in Europe as long as you did, but I definitely noticed it in the Belgium / France / Netherlands area where I was. But, at least they were different countries. Which, admittedly, England and Scotland and Wales used to be also. And some still seem to think they are.

They are different countries. Joined by a political will and common monarch. Saying they aren't different countries is like saying that all the states in the US are the same.

[baloo]

If they are different countries, why do they all compete as one country in the Olympics ?

[Morrolan]

They're probably different countries today because of a sheep shagging incident 1008 years ago.

actually that one was 250 years, 10 months, one week, 4 days and 8 hours ago. and it involved clogs. which were taken, or given, or was it burned? not sure...

[baloo]

Really ? I thought it was because some shoved a pomme fritte into a dyke.

[Fat Bob]

If they are different countries, why do they all compete as one country in the Olympics ?

To compete in the Olympics each country must have it's own Olympic association. In the UK, this is done under a joint association covering the whole of the the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northen Ireland.

In football and rugby they compete separately as they all have their own leagues and set ups.

Compare it to when the USSR competed as a single nation and now the former states compete separately.

You lot must have shit fo brains if you can't get your heads around that.

And no, the majority of the sheep shaggers got sent to Australia. Sheep shagging has been illegal in the UK for quite some time now. And we all know where the convicts were shipped off to 200 years ago.

[baloo]

You lot must have shit fo brains if you can't get your heads around that.

hehehe, not at all. It's just one of the longest serving, most reliable fishing baits going around.

[Fat Bob]

Ah, so that makes you a bit of a troll then......

[Morrolan]

Really ? I thought it was because some shoved a pomme fritte into a dyke.

pervert...

[T2K]

We've been over this before. If you believe that "country" and "nation state" are synonyms, which they are, then neither England nor Wales nor Scotland are countries.

If you believe that a "country" is come touchy feely thing like a collection of people that sort of seem the same, but that's about it - then yes they are all countries.

They have no independent political or national will. They can't sign foreign treaties, wage wars, have a seat in the UN, or anything important. They can, however, have their own sports teams though, which is the most that can be said.

And the states in the US ARE in the same country - the USA. Just like England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are part of the same country - the UK.

[daffodil]

I have no absolutely no animosity towards the Welsh. The fact that my parents holiday cottage burnt down in 1976 was due to a freak accident involving lightning, an unfortunately positioned box of matches and a crate of vodka

Such a shame that sport was outlawed upon joining the EU.

[Fat Bob]

We've been over this before. If you believe that "country" and "nation state" are synonyms, which they are, then neither England nor Wales nor Scotland are countries.

If you believe that a "country" is come touchy feely thing like a collection of people that sort of seem the same, but that's about it - then yes they are all countries.

They have no independent political or national will. They can't sign foreign treaties, wage wars, have a seat in the UN, or anything important. They can, however, have their own sports teams though, which is the most that can be said.

And the states in the US ARE in the same country - the USA. Just like England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are part of the same country - the UK.

And you've been pointed your errant ways before. They are different countries. England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are the constituent countries of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Just because the union of the United States of America calls each constitutent part a state and not a country, then doesn't mean everyone else has to.

And if they are not countries what are they?