The Singapore Forum

Went to lunch with a fellow kiwi. We talked about life plans and she said after 6 or so years here they were ready to bail sometime mid/end 2009 - to go to Europe where they have worked before. She loves her job here but they are finding the smallness of Singapore gets to them. We discussed the "out by 2 years" or "here for ever" tension. She raised lots of issues about Singapore, the usual kiasuness, the Asian way of thinking and doing things, the smallness of SIngapore, the failure to go to a dinner party and have a really good political scrap, that sort of thing.

I realised that I was so used to all of this I simply dont notice any of the above anymore. I wondered "should I"?? Have I been here too long? Should I get out and say head to Europe? Should I stay? It was an intersting exercise and one I am still thinking over. Maybe after 8 years here it is time to see some more of the world - can one stay indefinately in Singapore?

Start a poll.

I would say when those things really bother you - like make you miserable - then it's time to leave. If you are used to those things and don't even take notice of them right now, I would say, 'what's the problem?' Different people - different threshholds.

There are a few niggles not bad enough to make me leave, that I'd be happy not to encounter again. Open a bottle of Veuve some time and we'll compare notes.

I am going through the same thought process at the moment. Surely there must be an endpoint somewere right? I came here for an eight month project.... that was 7.5 years ago.

When we decided to leave Singapore in 2003, I let my guard down and many of the things that I dislike about Singapore started to occupy my mind 24x7 and I would rant to any Singaporean willing to listen. From maids to building workers to back of truck taxis to racism to media censorship to government control to etc etc really made my blood boil. By the time we found the road to Changi, I was more than happy to say good riddance.

Then, over time, I started missing the good side of living here. The things that made me stay here for an extended period and not the 6month contract I initially signed up for. I had a little internal tussle to see what was more important to me. Making the most of the benefits of Singapore for me and my family, or making a moralistic stand for my values.

I'm back. I'm a PR. I've bought property. I'm contemplating the Singapore Government's offer to apply for Citizenship.

Quick question, baloo - if you take SG citizenship, do you have to give up your Australian citizenship?

Officially, yes, you are expected to surrender your other nationalities. Unless there is a way around that I don't think I'll take them up on their kind offer.

I love being here, it was suddenly I realised that I no longer was interested in politics because I am not involved nor do they really affect me here, I realised that I was used to having low expectations of people here, of not really being engaged at all and just drifting along in a little world that consisted or work and my friends. I remember being quite into lots of things but not so much since I came here. I am not blaming Singapore because, like Baloo, I think the quality of life here for me is better than NZ but there are things I used to be so passionate about and interested in that have sort of fallen by the wayside and I think that could be a by product of livign in a country where so much is done for you and you dont have to worry about things.

Could also be changing priorities (age) that have altered what you are more passionate about these days.

Definately, that is what I am thinking over - would I be like this in NZ or has living in Sing really blunted me from lots of perspectives.

A poor workman blames his tools..... When you have a passion or interest it follows you wherever you go.

Not necessarily sometimes for different reasons it drops off for a while and then comes back sometimes in a different form.

Aliya wrote: Should I stay?

No, f%ck off!

True, and yes I know environments are important but surely we help create our own to a certain extend.

There's things to like, there's things to dislike.

I once had a little passion for politics, then I saw that whichever bunch of c%nts got in, it was going to be the same, i.e. them making it better for themselves, their only care that they do well enough to get back in next time. So that one was out.

I had and still do have a passion for rugby: watching and playing. I've continued that and even enhanced it (2 Lions tours and one RWC plus countless 7s comps both locally and internationally, and that I've watched and played), so that side has really been good.

There's things I'm doing here that I would never have done in the UK, there's things I've given up.

So instead of thinking "when do you know you really have been here too long?" why not think "where and what can somewhere else give me that Singapore can't?"

I'm happy, if I have the chance, I'll probably stay here until I'm ready to retire.

Interested about baloo's thought about becoming a citizen. What benefits would citizenship give you over what you already have?

I think you know you have been here too long when you dread landing at Changi ......

I left after 5.5 years and it was similiar to Baloo. Don't really miss Singapore so far but I'm aware of the good things there (and the bad things). I would be able to go back and I wouldn't be unhappy about it but given the choice to live in other places I'd probably chose something new.

I found that when living in Singapore it's easy to go into a kind of dreamlike state. For me the experience was that, as a non-citizen, there's no sense of 'ownership', so why think about local politics, etc? There's a bit of a sense of detachment from what's going on around you. I kind of 'switched off' to a lot of things, maybe because there was a part of me that knew that being in Singapore, regardless of how long for, was always going to be a temporary thing. I don't think there's anything wrong with being like that, except if you're not aware that it's happening.

Exactly Bender, that is it! Agree with Bob (eek) but also agree with Lichtywatsit - maybe there is a time for something new, a new challenge? Having said all that I would also be happy to keep the status quo and stay here until I retire - for lots of good reasons but because nothing really bites me enough to move. Also Poss thinks I am going through a crisis but I am not , just talking to this friend today and other people who are hitting the same "should I stay or should I go" question in their mind, I found interesting to work out what I thought as well.

I'm happy here after 9 years ( with a bit of commuting to Germany for a while there )
I've found I can live in most places fairly happily - it's not the physical environment that counts as much as the niche you carve for yourself within it.
I love my work here, and am appreciating the local culture more these days. I suddenly seem to be making a few local friends, or at least enjoying my contacts more - and it's not just those nice Indian boys!
It's not the same - but wouldn't life be boring if it were?
Politically, I think it's way more interesting than the old Labour/National tussle that goes on ad infinitum in NZ. It just depends how informed you decide to make yourself ( not that I claim to be - but am beginning to take more of an interest )

There's so much more to be annoyed about here. That makes life interesting.

Yes, Bender hit the nail on the head - but we don't have to drift on like that. I'm not sure what has changed it for me - perhaps getting PR, I feel more committed to the place. I would also contemplate citizenship.

Fat Bob wrote:Interested about baloo's thought about becoming a citizen. What benefits would citizenship give you over what you already have?

Not too many, other than being able to rent out my landed property or sell it earlier than 3 years or buy a second.

There's also the issue Bender touched on. If I do see myself living here for the next 10,15 or 20 years, I want to be part of the country, the community. I want to vote, if there happens to be an opposition in my GRC.

There is also the issue of BBIII. As a 2nd generation PR, he would have to do military service. My thinking is that if we're still here when he needs to do it, i.e. 17 years time, then Singapore is all he knows and he might as well do it like the rest of his mates. If he's going to do it, he might as well be a citizen, not a PR.

But unless I can retain my Aussie passport, I don't think I'll take up citizenship here.

Well, I guess it's time to weigh in on this one.....

I've been here for a quarter of a century. I came here like most of you, on a 12 month contract. Life was good, my company rolled my contract over 7 more times. By that time I had a 5 year old and a brand new one out of the oven. I left that employer and found another in Singapore that gave me my first EP (I worked in the offshore oil industry previously) I got my PR 3 years later. In Jan '99 in the aftermath of the financial meltdown here, the property market bottom out and that's when I bought my flat here. At the moment, I know I have passed my use-by date about 5 years ago. I am fed up with this country, it's smallness (I don't mean the physical size) and the government's pettiness. Now, almost everything aggravates me no end. (I was used to it for many years or at least compartmentalized it) I'm only here for two reasons today. One is a vow I made to my wife regarding her mother and the other is waiting for my son to do his NS. He may decide to stay here but I don't want to leave him in the lurch. My daughter is 25 today so I don't know what she is planning to do but that's her business (both still have dual citizenship - don't ask).

Me? The draw of my farm is getting stronger every day and I can't hardly wait to chuck it all and go back to being a gentleman farmer. I just want to sit on the end of my dock with an esky, a fishing rod & my lounge chair or grab a gun and go hunting for game for the table.

Who ever said it is right, this smilie does look like SMS !

I've known it was time for me personally to leave for a while but the very good reasons that have kept us here as a family are nearly at an end and whatever happens with other opportunities it's goodbye Singapore fairly soon.

Never dreaded landing at Changi ( after a 13 hr flight I'd be happy to land in Entebbe!) but having a sunken feeling on the drive between Changi and "home" must be pretty telling.

Nothing much against SG but it is time...