The Singapore Forum

BoD wrote:so it's not a comment on its ability to stay upright in rough seas?

avatarless wrote:For an investment, if you have you're heart set on dry bulk shippping, I would avoid DRYS and buy DSX. DRYS has serious debt problems. It also has a float of only 20 million shares....

Lichtgestalt wrote:What about the outlook for gold (not the kind around womens necks)? Traditionally it should be a safe haven but some say it won't

avatarless wrote:M,

Thanks for the link. I have a heard a rumor that george intends to drive DRYS into bankruptcy so he can sell the assets at distressed prices to his private shipping company, Cardiff. Assets bought with his sharholder's and bondholder's money... Do you know about this? TIA.

Morrolan wrote:

avatarless wrote:M,

Thanks for the link. I have a heard a rumor that george intends to drive DRYS into bankruptcy so he can sell the assets at distressed prices to his private shipping company, Cardiff. Assets bought with his sharholder's and bondholder's money... Do you know about this? TIA.

the things i could tell you...

have a look here: http://shipchartering.blogspot.com/2008 ... ships.html

and do a search on that site for Dryships.

anyway, i consider gold a hideyhole investment for end of the world nutters who think they can use it as money when society breaks down. a bit medieval.

Morrolan wrote:

avatarless wrote:For an investment, if you have you're heart set on dry bulk shippping, I would avoid DRYS and buy DSX. DRYS has serious debt problems. It also has a float of only 20 million shares....

A'less, that's a scary avatar...

anyway, don't make the mistake of underestimating George Economou, many people have done that before. he's the master of the turnaround (not seldomly at the expense of investors). i recall the late 90s when everyone thought his company would go down.
the only investment i would make in shipping is to buy vessels myself. i wouldn't trust on what is for all intents and purposes junk bond investment type companies without a significant amount of 'fuck you' money.

this site is a dream forgood fundamental info on shipping and commodities.

FEARS are mounting that Ireland could default on its soaring national debt pile, amid continuing worries about its troubled banking sector.

The cost of buying insurance against Irish government bonds rose to record highs on Friday, having almost tripled in a week. Debt-market investors now rank Ireland as the most troubled economy in Europe.

Simon Johnson, the former chief economist of the International Monetary Fund, called for this weekend’s meeting of G7 finance ministers to put Ireland’s troubles at the top of the agenda.

Johnson said: “Don’t, please, tell me more about the basic principles of financial reform unless and until you have addressed the Irish problem. And don’t tell me the Irish have to sort this out for themselves. Eventually, the world always comes to help; check your notes on Iceland.

“It’s much better and much cheaper to come in early and decisively. We need a plan of action for Ireland, and we need it now.”

Pledges made by Ireland to support its banking sector amount to 220% of the country’s annual economic output. The total loans held in Irish banks are more than 11 times the size of the economy.

Following the scandal at Anglo Irish Bank over undisclosed loans, the market fears there are more hidden problems that could ultimately fall to the state to resolve.

With Ireland set to borrow an additional €15 billion (£13.4 billion) this year, the national debt pile will hit €70 billion.

The cost of insuring Irish debt hit 350 basis points on Friday, meaning that for every £100 of debt it would cost £3.50 to insure against default. A year ago it would have cost 10p to insure every £100 of Irish debt.

One possible solution would see Germany buy billions of euros of Irish government debt through a fund set up by the European Central Bank.

Rosbif71 wrote:second hand and newbuilding prices are still on the high side. back in 2001 I negotiated to build 4 x 52,000 bulkers in China at 18mil each. think you'd still get close to 30mil each today.

baloo wrote:or a deeper one for those who like maths...

Two guys are sitting in the bar, One is named Bill, and other other is John. Bill asks John if he can find out if his wife is cheating on him, John says no problem but says it will cost Bill $100, Bill gives John $100 to find out who is sleeping with his wife.

Bill leaves the bar and John takes the $100 bill to the barman and says, here is the $100 I owed you, my debt to you is now gone, the barman is happy.

The barman then goes to the kitchen hand out the back and gives the kitchen hand that same $100 note, 'here is the $100 I owed you, my debt to you is now gone..'

The Kitchen hand then goes to the chef and gives the chef the $100, 'here is the $100 I owed you chef, my debt to you is now gone..'

The chef takes the $100 and then goes and see's John out at the bar, the chef gives John the $100 note, 'here you go John, its the $100 I owe you, my debt to you is now gone..'

Bill returns to the bar.. and asks John if he knows anything yet, John says 'No I dont know who is sleeping with your wife, so you can have your $100 back'..

So what just happened.... how much money was spent.. and who benefited?

baloo wrote:Nothing was spent overall, but $100 was spent initially which in turn paid off $400 in debt.

When I first read that little fable I couldn't help but but wonder if the whole debt industry is just smoke and mirrors.

baloo wrote:I guess it also shows if credit freezes (the initial $100) then a lot of people will be in debt with no means of paying it off.