The Gun Debate

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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by BoD » 3rd Feb, '13, 00:28

I guess my problem is that I just don't understand why anybody would want a gun. So the banning or them hardly seems like an infringement of my civil liberties.

So I guess we will have to agree to disagree T2K. I find your viewpoint as staggering as you find mine. Which if nothing else illustrates just how difficult the problem is

I agree with you Slinky, we should all take personal responsibility for our actions, and stop blaming others or the government or whoever. But until people are grown up enough to do that, what do we do?
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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by avatarless » 3rd Feb, '13, 03:46

While it may be true that the intention of the 2nd amendment is to allow citizens to defend themselves against domestic tyranny, it is now simply anachronistic. There is no way whatsoever that US citizens could defend themselves against a modern military. To remain consistent with the spirit of the second amendment, we would have to allow private sales of all sorts of military grade explosives, mortars, missiles, tanks, armored personnel carriers, planes, drones, satellites, telecommunications jamming equipment, etc.. And that sh!t's not legal, right? Errr... Right?

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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by avatarless » 3rd Feb, '13, 04:23

Also, although it is true that enforcement of current gun laws is pathetic, we still need some new ones. For example, laws banning private sales. In Florida, because I have a clean record, I can go into a gun shop, buy an AR-15, then flip it in a private sale at a gun "show" to absolutely anybody, regardless of criminal record. There is no requirement for a background check with private sales or for a record of such transactions, which are often in cash. If anyone is wondering how guns get into the hands of criminals in the US, this is the mechanism! I'm sure quite a few of these guns end up smuggled on boats to Mexican drug cartels and such, as well. The florida coastline is huge. This is why Florida is crawling with arms dealers! Like cars, all gun sales should be recorded and all guns should be manufactured with ID numbers that are very difficult to remove.

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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by T2K » 4th Feb, '13, 03:03

Slinky - Spot on, full agreement.

BoD - I think we both already knew we disagreed on this matter! I don't see why anybody would ever want to smoke. And yet I would not tolerate any attempt to "ban" tobacco (obviously, any such ban would fail anyway) even though it would have zero impact on my life. I accept that there are reasonable regulations on smoking, just like I accept the existing reasonable regulations on US gun ownership.

Avatarless (fitting name, as I see only a red x) - If the US has moved beyond the need for the 2nd Amendment, as you said, then we should repeal it, right? So, why don't we? Perhaps most don't agree with you? I'm curious, are there any other rights enumerated in the US Constitution which are now anachronistic and should be revoked? The 4th Amendment seems rather contrary to effective police work and should be removed, maybe? The 1st Amendment is seemingly quite troublesome also, protecting all sorts of offensive and dangerous thoughts - it's no longer consistent with the modern world, is it?

When the US Government in its present form was established in 1791 there was no income tax, no standing army, and no galaxy of federal agencies to regulate and oversee and enforce everything like there is now. Following that trend, where will the US government be in 50 years? In 100? How much control over your life are you willing to grant to Washington DC? And let's be clear - any powers the US government has are supposed to be granted by the people, as the government governs only with our consent.

I agree that the NICS check for firearm purchases should apply to private sales also, as long as there is an exception for family members and inheritances. See, I'm quite a reasonable chap, aren't I?
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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by Kooky » 4th Feb, '13, 04:12

People, people, stop getting your knickers in a twist. All is about to be fine - I just read a headline, "Stallone joins gun control debate".

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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by BoD » 4th Feb, '13, 05:26

Kooky wrote:People, people, stop getting your knickers in a twist. All is about to be fine - I just read a headline, "Stallone joins gun control debate".
Ah excellent. I assume he is in the anti-gun camp
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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by slinky » 4th Feb, '13, 10:30

BoD wrote:I guess my problem is that I just don't understand why anybody would want a gun. So the banning or them hardly seems like an infringement of my civil liberties.

I agree with you Slinky, we should all take personal responsibility for our actions, and stop blaming others or the government or whoever. But until people are grown up enough to do that, what do we do?
I've never owned a gun myself, and I can't really foresee a future where I have a need to walk around with one in my bag daily either, but that's not really what I'm focused on here. Precedent in terms of the law means everything and the more we allow the government to do when it comes to things like banning this or that means the more power of control they have and that's the basis for the slippery slope I mentioned earlier. Not everyone is going to grow up enough to take personal responsibility for themselves and for their actions, which is why we need laws in the first place, right? I just think when it comes to gun laws we need a lot more consistency in enforcement than we currently have. Get serious about severe penalties for committing crime with a gun and for carrying a gun illegally and enforce them across the board without exception and then you'll force people to make a choice and live with the consequences.

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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by avatarless » 5th Feb, '13, 04:39

T2K,

By 'anachronistic' I was referring only to changes in military technology. Perhaps I should have used the term 'obsolete'.

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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by Fat Bob » 23rd Apr, '13, 07:57

T2K, you're on TV!

http://vimeo.com/64432171

If someone can find the youtube link please post. It's the most incredulous act of ignorance and stupidity I have ever seen by any die-hard supporter of any issue.
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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by Lili Von Shtupp » 23rd Apr, '13, 08:11

Fat Bob wrote:T2K, you're on TV!

http://vimeo.com/64432171

If someone can find the youtube link please post. It's the most incredulous act of ignorance and stupidity I have ever seen by any die-hard supporter of any issue.
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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by T2K » 23rd Apr, '13, 09:17

The clip is good comedy, I enjoyed watching it. There are ill-informed people on both sides that make good TV (with a little editing / external content). I am not sure who that Monopoly-man looking guys is, though, but he's got a tenuous grasp at best on some of the issues.

You should check out this lady called Feinstein in the US, she's an ill-informed nutjob also. Unfortunately, she won't debate her opponents so the comedy potential is moderated. In her case, it's smart of her. The less she says the better for her.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09gDvV_zHHk
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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by skank-la » 23rd Apr, '13, 09:48

Pls take a moment & watch

http://www.demandaction.org/cartoonists
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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by Fat Bob » 23rd Apr, '13, 18:23

T2K wrote:The clip is good comedy, I enjoyed watching it. There are ill-informed people on both sides that make good TV (with a little editing / external content). I am not sure who that Monopoly-man looking guys is, though, but he's got a tenuous grasp at best on some of the issues.

You should check out this lady called Feinstein in the US, she's an ill-informed nutjob also. Unfortunately, she won't debate her opponents so the comedy potential is moderated. In her case, it's smart of her. The less she says the better for her.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09gDvV_zHHk
I agree, there did seem to be some editing in the one I posted.

As for Feinstein: if she's used those tactics all the way through her political career and people are still voting for her.....then something is wrong. Seriously wrong.
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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by sluggo » 24th Apr, '13, 05:09

T2K and FB, what makes you call her a "nut job?" The fact that she won't debate a challenger? That happens all the time from both sides. Rick Perry (the longest serving Governor of Texas) refused to debate any of his challengers which is why he did so poorly in the debates when he ran for President.
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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by Fat Bob » 24th Apr, '13, 07:50

Hey, not calling her a nutjob, calling the people who vote for her nutjobs for blindly following her whilst she is quite rude and all-out evades questions. If she explained why she didn't want to debate, fine. She doesn't.
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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by T2K » 24th Apr, '13, 08:38

I'm calling her a nutjob. She's on the far left fringe. She's the Democrat equivalent of Republicans who want to make us the United States of Jesus.
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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by Fat Bob » 24th Apr, '13, 14:37

Oh, I'm not calling her a nutjob because I have very little idea of who she is nor what her policies are. However, she is a politician, so they normally get classed as nutjobs until they prove otherwise.
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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by Lili Von Shtupp » 9th Sep, '13, 11:13

Whoopee! Iowa grants gun permits to the blind.

[smilie=mango.gif] [smilie=groovy.gif] [smilie=mango.gif] [smilie=groovy.gif] [smilie=mango.gif] [smilie=groovy.gif]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... d/2780303/
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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by Lili Von Shtupp » 9th Sep, '13, 11:51

Shit, I missed my chance to use this guy:

[t2k]

aptly named T2Knana LOL
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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by slinky » 9th Sep, '13, 13:49

Lili Von Shtupp wrote:Whoopee! Iowa grants gun permits to the blind.

[smilie=mango.gif] [smilie=groovy.gif] [smilie=mango.gif] [smilie=groovy.gif] [smilie=mango.gif] [smilie=groovy.gif]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... d/2780303/
I thought this surely HAD to be a story from the Onion or something like it....but, unless USA Today has gone satire, it appears to be true.

I like this part best:
Iowa is granting permits to acquire or carry guns in public to people who are legally or completely blind.

No one questions the legality of the permits. State law does not allow sheriffs to deny an Iowan the right to carry a weapon based on physical ability.

The quandary centers squarely on public safety. Advocates for the disabled and Iowa law enforcement officers disagree over whether it's a good idea for visually disabled Iowans to have weapons.
They disagree whether it's a good idea?? Must be a lot of sharp crayons in that box..... :shock:

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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by chocolate » 9th Sep, '13, 23:46

Note to self: Don't go to Iowa!

That's so disturbing.

Did you see the article about the 3 year old who shot herself in the Yellowstone national park with her father's handgun? A ban was lifted a few years ago allowing people to bring guns into the park. Ridiculous.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-gun.html
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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by Tas » 10th Sep, '13, 10:36

And the articles about bullet proof panels for backpacks, the rainbow toned posters that are actually bullet shield pleased over class door windows, and the white boards built as built shields to hide behind. Happening in that state where the movie cinema shooting took place. But it's ok, guns aren't the problem, it's the people behind them. And it's still no problem that they don't need security and mental health checks. Mate, just need to be a psycho blind crazy fucker, no worries here's your automatic dude.
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Re: The Gun Debate

Post by T2K » 12th Sep, '13, 16:29

I want us to go back to the 1960's when we didn't have nutjobs doing random shootings. Oh, and we also had $1 down & $4 per week, mail-order to anyone that wants one, no background check, no age requirement, semi-auto rifles with 15 or 30 round magazines. We also involuntarily institutionalized nutjbos back then.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KLEINS-SPORTING ... 1200762039
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