My first day looking at flats to rent

Fat Bob · Post by **Fat Bob** » 25th Mar, '10, 07:41

It's all about margins. And extra $200 on $3500/month is the same percentage increase. With inflation being low, then event 5.7% increase in earnings due to that extra $200 is well worth it.

And they gain face with their landlord client as again, they get an extra 5.7% over the 12/24 months for them. Work out how much better off the LL is over that period in time.

T2K · Post by **T2K** » 25th Mar, '10, 08:11

Real world example to assist with your negotiating:

LL asked: 3900/mth
I offered: 3200/mth
LL replied that he really needed 3600/mth:
I replied: I don't want to pay more than 3200/mth, thanks and I hope you find a good tenant
LL replied (2 days later): OK I'll take 3200

Be ready to walk away.

Edit to add - note that I was dealing directly with the LL. That is ideal if possible and I've done it on two of the three leases I've had here. Found one in ST and one by just seeing a sign in the window of a place I wanted to live.

Fresh Mint · Post by **Fresh Mint** » 25th Mar, '10, 08:51

Stick to your guns.

Beesknees · Post by **Beesknees** » 25th Mar, '10, 16:15

Would you please tell me if it's normal for the tenants to maintain and service the air conditioning when they rent. If so - do you do it ?

JJ · Post by JJ » 25th Mar, '10, 16:17

Yes and yes.

BoD · Post by **BoD** » 25th Mar, '10, 16:42

Yes (though not always) , and if you don't actually get the units serviced then there is a fair chance the the LL will legitimately stick you with a big bill if the aircon breaks down due to lack of servicing

PJ · Post by PJ » 25th Mar, '10, 16:42

Sorry to jump on this thread, but it may be useful to you Beeskness...

We are going to try to re-negotiate our lease later this year with our landlords. We negotiated originally with their agent (didn't have an agent ourselves) We now deal directly with the landlords with any issues, and even they have said to leave the agent out of it as she is useless.
My question to the experts is...If we were to suggest re-negotiating with the landlords what do we need get signed and squared away? Is there stamp duty? I presume we can just use the same lease, as it is fine (hopefully with a smaller number on it though!)

Thanks.

slinky · Post by **slinky** » 25th Mar, '10, 17:03

Beesknees wrote:Would you please tell me if it's normal for the tenants to maintain and service the air conditioning when they rent. If so - do you do it ?

As others have said - yes and yes. However, be sure there is a clause in your lease that states the LL is responsible for the cost of replacing equipment that breaks down. That way if a compressor or wall unit goes bad, you don't end up having to pay for it. I guess it would be rare that you'd have to pay anyway given those things cost more than the standard $150 or $200 repairs that you'd have to pay anyway, but nevertheless. It might also be helpful to consider using an aircon service company or guy that your LL recommends (provided they don't want to charge beyond what is normal, that is). I say this after the experience of my LL and the aircon company I was using ended up in a disagreement over parts replaced & then gone bad & who was responsible for replacing again, blah, blah, blah -- all of which resulted in our being without a working unit in my son's room for about a month

Honestly, in that experience, the aircon company was in the wrong & I was more than happy to give them the boot when it came time to renew the service contract. Since then, I've been using the LL's guy - he's no more expensive than the others were - and at least when something breaks down the LL is willing to believe the diagnosis since he trusts his guy.

Fresh Mint · Post by **Fresh Mint** » 25th Mar, '10, 18:19

PJ wrote:Sorry to jump on this thread, but it may be useful to you Beeskness...

We are going to try to re-negotiate our lease later this year with our landlords. We negotiated originally with their agent (didn't have an agent ourselves) We now deal directly with the landlords with any issues, and even they have said to leave the agent out of it as she is useless.
My question to the experts is...If we were to suggest re-negotiating with the landlords what do we need get signed and squared away? Is there stamp duty? I presume we can just use the same lease, as it is fine (hopefully with a smaller number on it though!)

Thanks.

You need a new lease (and accompanying inventory) with stamp duty. It is an official contract.

Fresh Mint · Post by **Fresh Mint** » 25th Mar, '10, 18:27

Beesknees wrote:Would you please tell me if it's normal for the tenants to maintain and service the air conditioning when they rent. If so - do you do it ?

Yes and yes. As others have said, an annual contract makes it easy (mine is about $300 for four times a year for six units that I never use ...).

Makes sure your landlord services the aircon BEFORE you move in so that you know they work from day one. Insist on seeing proof of this.

Also, most leases say the tenant is responsible for all repairs under $100. Insist that this is capped at $300 per year -- particularly if any equipment (fridges, washing machines etc) are old. Also insist that there is a two-month "if it breaks the landlord fixes" clause on all equipment when you first move in.

Make a very detailed note of everything that is even slightly wrong with the apartment and take pictures. Make sure this is appended to the contract. Include even small things like old picture frame hook holes, scratches on the floor etc. Don't worry about looking like an over zealous moaning minny.

To be honest I've never had problems with landlords in Singapore, but I've heard enough horror stories from those who have to be very wary.

Beesknees · Post by **Beesknees** » 25th Mar, '10, 19:30

Thank you all. The information and advice received here - from all of you - is very much appreciated

Beesknees · Post by **Beesknees** » 25th Mar, '10, 21:44

PS I did just write the above after quaffing a big half of a nice Chardonney. It brought out the emotional, soppy side of me, obviously!

daniel22 · Post by **daniel22** » 26th Apr, '12, 22:46

Fat Bob wrote:It's all about margins. And extra $200 on $3500/month is the same percentage increase. With inflation being low, then event 5.7% increase in earnings due to that extra $200 is well worth it.

And they gain face with their landlord client as again, they get an extra 5.7% over the 12/24 months for them. Work out how much better off the LL is over that period in time.

Yeah I agree.

canuck · Post by **canuck** » 8th May, '12, 17:29

Jimmy: rubbish, our rental agreement came up in March and our llrd only asked for $200 a month more... so we stayed.. if they asked 30% I would move.

Must say a few condos around me seem to have come down in price

Morrolan · Post by **Morrolan** » 8th May, '12, 17:37

agree with Canuck: there is no influx of foreigners and there is definitely no boom.

at our place 4 units have now been empty for 4 months because the LL's asked for $2,000 p/month rent increases (25%). of course, no one accepted and the units have still to be rented out again. in a market that has prices dropping, you sometimes wonder what drugs these people are on...

slinky · Post by **slinky** » 8th May, '12, 17:52

We renewed our lease in the past 6 weeks or so at no increase - rent stayed put.

baloo · Post by **baloo** » 8th May, '12, 18:11

Our mortgage hasn't changed

Sardonicus · Post by **Sardonicus** » 8th May, '12, 21:09

This is a really good suggestion which I now wish I thought about before:

Fresh Mint wrote:Also, most leases say the tenant is responsible for all repairs under $100. Insist that this is capped at $300 per year.

Sardonicus · Post by **Sardonicus** » 8th May, '12, 21:14

I don't wonder, I know it's Special K*.

Morrolan wrote:in a market that has prices dropping, you sometimes wonder what drugs these people are on...

And agree with M and Canuck: there is no influx of foreigners and there is definitely no boom.

*Kiasu

Morrolan · Post by **Morrolan** » 9th May, '12, 11:15

the way things are going, i'm going to ask for a reduction with 1,000/month when our renewal comes up in January...

Sardonicus · Post by **Sardonicus** » 10th May, '12, 00:03

M - I'm tempted to ask how serious you are about that.

Ours is up in October, 2 years ago it went up 12.5 %; with people renting places recently at $1000-2000 less than we're paying, I've considered this as well. I actually thought to suggest the old price before it went up last time.

I'm hoping this is the trend that I think it is.

Morrolan wrote:the way things are going, i'm going to ask for a reduction with 1,000/month when our renewal comes up in January...

Morrolan · Post by **Morrolan** » 10th May, '12, 08:51

oh, i'm very serious about it. just wait and see. i'm rather pessimistic (again) about the global outlook, and we will get a hit too this time, i think.

Sardonicus · Post by **Sardonicus** » 14th Jun, '12, 21:30

M (and others) - what's your current stance on this?

Our lease is up in October, we've just started looking and the word is rents are up or at least are not down and are up $.5k/$1k from our last lease.

We're in District 9 and would rather stay if the rent doesn't go up. Our first agent has proposed what looks like flats of a lesser quality than our current one, for about the same rent as now.

Sardonicus · Post by **Sardonicus** » 15th Jun, '12, 09:55

More on this.

An independent agent suggested we ask our current apartment's agent to try and negotiate our current rent with the landlord to keep it where it is (I wanted to negotiate it down to where it was before it went up 2 years ago).

She suggested this instead of waiting until renewal / get-out time came closer.

Not sure if any of these tactics would help, but would sure rather stay than move.

nev · Post by **nev** » 15th Jun, '12, 10:57

The URA rental property market analysis is very useful for rent negotiation. http://www.ura.gov.sg/realEstateWeb/rea ... roller.jpf

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