Acupuncture/pressure, Qi and Meridian Lines

[baloo]

Seeing I've lived in Asia for 12 odd years, I realise I have no idea about the vailidity of acupuncture or acupressure. How does this ancient Chinese practice stand up to the test of modern science ? or should it be tossed into the homeopathy basket ?

[azzam]

I tried it once for headaches and it didn't do much. But there is something going on there that is quite powerful.I had several needeles stuck in the back of my neck, and I thought I could juuuuust carefully reach over and pick up a magazine. Well that movement made me pass put cold. Spooky.
Is that scientific enough?

[canuck]

I believe it can be useful, tried one guy in canada, excellent results, realigned my self, felt much better after.

now went to a woman in the UK, useless, I do not come for acupunture to drink tea FFS.

Been to EYS here, ahh who can be bothered. I do believe it can work, I think it is very hard to find someone really good, and you have to know what it can and won't do.

I doubt it can cure serious diseases, but I believe it can bring you back into a sort of alignment

[Burbage]

Technically it can work.

Pain is really only a transmission of an electrical signal from a nerve cell ending into a long axon to a cell body in you dorsal or ventral root ganglia. So technically if you divert the signal elsewhere, ie up a metal needle, then the signal doesn't get to the ganglion and isn't passed to the brain.

[azzam]

I did a programme segment on Chi Qong ( sp) a few years ago. We went to Taiwan and met various people ranging from obvious quacks to trained doctors. Acupuncture, as I understand it, works on the same principles of chi, or energy meridians?
Anyway, the point I am getting to is that we interviewed a doctor who was conducting research in one of the hospitals there. He was comparing the fitness levels of people who practise Tai Chi with conventional athletes. They had found that the closest were tennis players and runners. So, even with those slow and gentle movements, they acquired very impressive fitness levels. He thought it was because of the breathing techniques and the muscle control needed to hold the postures.
Goodness knows how that relates to Acupuncture - but as Tai Chi is supposed to help balance the chi in your body, I guess there might be a link.
I am trying to remember what else he said, it was a few years ago now. He likened chi to the the circulatory system. That was the closest analogy he could find in western medicine and thought it was a different way of explaining similar effects in the body and that the two systems had simply arrived at similar knowledge by different routes.
I'm not 100% convinced, but neither would I dismiss it. It certainly isn't the quick fix that western medicine tends to look for. The doctors we interviewed saw it as more preventive - by keeping things in balance you can avoid health problems later.

[azzam]

Technically it can work.

Pain is really only a transmission of an electrical signal from a nerve cell ending into a long axon to a cell body in you dorsal or ventral root ganglia. So technically if you divert the signal elsewhere, ie up a metal needle, then the signal doesn't get to the ganglion and isn't passed to the brain.

Why did it make me pass out, Burb?

[Burbage]

Morphine on the end of the needle?

Dunno. What i do know is that it's going to be a very long time before we understand everything about the nervous system and brain. But it is just an electrical system. And it can short-circuit.

[baloo]

Number 5 is alive

[Satellite]

I tried acupunture on my 4th toe once. But did not do it properly because I was terrified of having to sit down with a needle sticking out my toe. Anyway, the doctor peirced the needle for a split second and the pain was gone and lasted 6 months. Imagine, pain gone for split second of acupuncture!

I think acupuncure numbs the area because the doctor kept asking me if it felt numb after that. Personally I think if it simply numbs the area then it is not worth it because you may be causing more damage to the area without knowing it as pain is to indicate damage being done.

I suppose it if is for something like migrane than it should be ok as you can't damage it further anyway.

[azzam]

On the same trip, I also met a man who could harness his Qi and pull a truck with his gonads. I think I've mentioned this on the board before...

[Fat Bob]

Those doing tai chi I've always thought it brings a state of mind and well-being that goes beyond the actual exercise. As you say, western medicine tries to look for the quick fix, where in actual fact there's usually a whole heap of reasons why something is wrong.

I believe these can work, at a bare minimum as a placebo effect but possibly (probably?) a lot more than that too.

[BoD]

You think you would get a feeling of well-being from trying to tow a truck with your bollocks?

[cromasaig]

You think you would get a feeling of well-being from trying to tow a truck with your bollocks?

Imagine how happy you would feel when you stopped.

[BoD]

Actually, I can understand that. When I had kidney stones and the pain finally stopped, I was in a state of amazing euphoria for days.

[azzam]

These guys were amazing. They exercised by standing on a platform with weights underneath them, then they tied the rope round their fiddly bits and lifted the weights up. Those of you who are on my facebook can see the photos in "all in a day's work". They did a lot of Tai Chi/martial arts type training and prepared for the lifts by deep breathing and trying to concentrate all the "chi" in their abdomen.
Met another guy who could lean all his weight onto a sharp spear that was wedged between the ground and his jugular. That spear was bending with his weight. His mates then piled bricks onto the back of his neck and whacked them with a sledge hammer. Not even a scratch. He said the same thing, he was concentrating chi into the area he needed.
I don't know what science has to say about that.

[Kooky]

I had acupuncture in Sg - well of course, I'm a sucker for all that woowoo stuff I don't know if it helped or not as I was having other treatment at the same time but I was referred by a western-trained health professional who believes in it.

I also had trigger-point needling at the osteopath's, which is very different from acupuncture as the needles are left in for seconds only.

I thought I would never be able to stomach it (being one who fainted on getting her ears pierced) but I found it all perfectly ok. I can recommend a practitioner who also lectures on acupuncture.

[Burbage]

blah blah...
I don't know what science has to say about that.

The only thing I can think of to say is Why?

[azzam]

Because it wasn't a science show Burb.

[Burbage]

They want to pull trucks with their scrotums because it wasn't a science show?

[baloo]

I must admit, I can't quite fathom the thought process for someone to sit up and say "Hey, I'm going to teach myself to pull a large truck by my sack!"

There must be some great drugs involved.

[azzam]

They want to pull trucks with their scrotums because it wasn't a science show?

Yes, absolutely.


Bit tired today

[Spike]

I once went to an acupuncture expert for knee pain. It was very effective. He stuck an acupuncture needle in my eye and all of a suddent the knee pain seemed very inconsequential.

[Lili Von Shtupp]

I once went to an acupuncture expert for knee pain. It was very effective. He stuck an acupuncture needle in my eye and all of a suddent the knee pain seemed very inconsequential.